Hey all, I want to get into welding. just common stuff. mini bike and auto related. No heavy lifting. Just will be welding as a hobby and some stress relief. Thoughts? ideas? opinions? Thanks for the input. Looking to buy cheap greenhorn stuff and dont know the first thing about the differences. thanks again...:thumbsup:
welding....
I would suggest taking a night class at a local community college. That would give you the basics. A class would probably start with Oxy/Acetylene (gas welding) to teach you how to form a "puddle" and move it. Even 1 or 2 semesters would help greatly. As far as equipment goes... A small Mig Welder (wire feed) would be the best thing for a beginner. A 125-135 amp machine is all you would need for minibike stuff. I would opt for a machine that uses gas over a Flux-Core machine as you would get a much better quality weld. If you can afford a Lincoln or Miller, buy one. The Import units such as Harbor Freight, Pep Boys, etc... may do the job but are pretty crappy machines and hard to get repair parts. (sorry hayden...) Also... If you could get an Auto Darkening welding hood their FAR BETTER than a standard one. I have a Miller 125 amp and 210 amp Mig. A Miller 200 amp Syncrowave Tig machine, and a Oxy/Acetylene set up. Of all the these, I use the MIG the most. Once you learn the basics, its just a matter of Practice. Good Luck !! :thumbsup: :weld:
I would suggest taking a night class at a local community college. That would give you the basics. A class would probably start with Oxy/Acetylene (gas welding) to teach you how to form a "puddle" and move it. Even 1 or 2 semesters would help greatly. As far as equipment goes... A small Mig Welder (wire feed) would be the best thing for a beginner. A 125-135 amp machine is all you would need for minibike stuff. I would opt for a machine that uses gas over a Flux-Core machine as you would get a much better quality weld. If you can afford a Lincoln or Miller, buy one. The Import units such as Harbor Freight, Pep Boys, etc... may do the job but are pretty crappy machines and hard to get repair parts. (sorry hayden...) Also... If you could get an Auto Darkening welding hood their FAR BETTER than a standard one. I have a Miller 125 amp and 210 amp Mig. A Miller 200 amp Syncrowave Tig machine, and a Oxy/Acetylene set up. Of all the these, I use the MIG the most. Once you learn the basics, its just a matter of Practice. Good Luck !! :thumbsup: :weld:
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A cheap price looks good to you but you will struggle with too small of a machine. I would rather buy a used quality machine like the ones Smallbore mentioned than to buy a new under rated machine.
It's like a gun, you buy it for the quality of the manufacture and it will support you when it is needed.
Steve
It's like a gun, you buy it for the quality of the manufacture and it will support you when it is needed.
Steve
Newbie welder here as well. Bought a used Clarke 130EN, 110 volt wire feed (except for the color, its a dead ringer for a Craftsman). Best thing I did was switch out the flux core wire and go with gas - much cleaner welds. Neither Miller or Lincoln was in my budget since I know I'll use it only occasionally. Got all the accessories (helmet, gloves, cart, etc.) from HF. Pretty happy so far, the quality of the equipment is still way better than the skill of the user....:thumbsup:
Iv got a lincoln 100. I ran it for qute a few years on flux core because i was a noob and didnt use it much. But i upgraded it to run on gas and it works just fine and i use it constantly. Weather your going to use it alot or not i suggest getting a good name brand and able to run on gas if you want. Mine has never broke but you want parts to be available if you ever need em
Here's my two cents. If you want to get in cheap and still buy a quality welder make it an arc welder. Sure, it's a little bit of a trick to be able to strike an arc and make a decent bead. A wire feed on gas is a lot easier for the beginner, but arc is easy enough to learn and it IS worth learning. MIG is easier to learn only because everything you see in the weld puddle is metal. With the arc rod there's molten flux that tends to hide what the weld metal looks like. But there's a number of pluses to first buying a cracker box AC arc welder.
1. It's far cheaper to purchase. Nice, used AC welders are common. Also there's a lot of cheap rod for sale. There are no "consumeables" to buy, like tips and etc., all you buy is rod. If you can find a single phase 230 V. with a Polarity Reversing Swith buy it! With that you can even arc weld aluminum. They're around.
2. You can weld cast iron, hard face, cut with a carbon arc, and a number of other things that can't be done [or requires special wire/gas and etc.] with a wire feed. Check out what it will cost to buy a tank of special gas for stainless steel and the roll of stainless wire! I own them, but usually don't go to the trouble of switching things over if it's not a big job.
3. You will NEED an AC arc welder even if you have [or later buy] very nice MIG and TIG machines.
4. You can weld really rusty or painted steel [and still get away with it] useing a 6011 rod. MIG requires clean metal.
5. You'll run into places that you can't get the cup of the MIG gun into to make the weld. The thin arc rod saves the day.
6. MIG is not the welding method of choice if you are making a leak proof weld. I still use an arc rod if I'm making a gas tank.
7. The money you save will go a long way to buying a oxy/acet outfit. That's another thing that [In My Not So Humble Opinion] you WILL definately need if you wish to build things. I occationally weld aluminum with the 'torch'. In fact, if you are building aluminum auto bodys you should not use TIG [HeliArc]. The panels will later crack. You will also need to be able to braze things, heat up things and a lot of other stuff.
1. It's far cheaper to purchase. Nice, used AC welders are common. Also there's a lot of cheap rod for sale. There are no "consumeables" to buy, like tips and etc., all you buy is rod. If you can find a single phase 230 V. with a Polarity Reversing Swith buy it! With that you can even arc weld aluminum. They're around.
2. You can weld cast iron, hard face, cut with a carbon arc, and a number of other things that can't be done [or requires special wire/gas and etc.] with a wire feed. Check out what it will cost to buy a tank of special gas for stainless steel and the roll of stainless wire! I own them, but usually don't go to the trouble of switching things over if it's not a big job.
3. You will NEED an AC arc welder even if you have [or later buy] very nice MIG and TIG machines.
4. You can weld really rusty or painted steel [and still get away with it] useing a 6011 rod. MIG requires clean metal.
5. You'll run into places that you can't get the cup of the MIG gun into to make the weld. The thin arc rod saves the day.
6. MIG is not the welding method of choice if you are making a leak proof weld. I still use an arc rod if I'm making a gas tank.
7. The money you save will go a long way to buying a oxy/acet outfit. That's another thing that [In My Not So Humble Opinion] you WILL definately need if you wish to build things. I occationally weld aluminum with the 'torch'. In fact, if you are building aluminum auto bodys you should not use TIG [HeliArc]. The panels will later crack. You will also need to be able to braze things, heat up things and a lot of other stuff.
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It's a can of worms because there's so many options. If you got the loot, or find a really good deal on a used MIG [set up with gas], buy it. You'll never be sorry that you own it and you'll need to buy one sooner or later. You won't be willing to live without it forever. But a new 230 V. single phase cracker box won't set you back more that about a 100 bucks new. With a hood and some rod, gloves, SAFETY GLASSES, and etc. you will be makeing smoke for 150.
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I agree Oldsalt. I've been a certified pipe welder in the Pipefitters Local #4 since 85. You can run that 6010 and 6011 rod uphill, downhill, flat and overhead. If he wants a smoother weld, run 6010 or 6011 first pass [called root pass], then run a 7018 for a cover pass. Just don't run the 7018 downhill, not made for it. Also grind down the 6010-6011 smooth before you run a second pass if needed.:weld:
Keep in mind that Sinner has no welding experience at all. Anyone can figure out a MIG in about an hour, but a stick welder takes some skill and a lot of practice to get the hang of. One thing about a MIG that no one mentioned is that it's quick and precise to heat. When you need to worry about surrounding metal or components your less likely to catch the carpet, seat, wiring harness, etc. on fire.
That's certinally the downside for arc welding. But I got the idea that he's commited enough to spend the time and effort to get good at it. Hell, you and I learned! But, there can be no doubt, if he's not really interested in going to the trouble of developeing the needed hand/eye coordination he should go straight to a MIG and not look back. A friend of mine's wife wishes to learn to weld to do some metal art work. I'll have her start with the MIG. She'll have to have a LOT more interest in welding before it would be worthwhile for her to go to more difficult methods.
I still got the idea that there can be some problems with a MIG, that a new weldor would have to cope with, that can't happen with a cracker box. Like running out of consumables such as a liner or tips or a cup or finding you have an empty tank on Sunday morning. With an arc welder you ether got rod or you ain't got rod. Also there can be problems with keeping even a top quality MIG in operation. A tight curve in the liner of a MIG can cause the wire to slow down or stop. You can tie knots in the arc welder cable and it dosen't know it. Worn drive roll or dirty liner or worn tip can cause all sorts of discontent. Does not apply to an arc welder. The arc welder could not care less if there's a wind blowing. Need to thaw frozen pipes? An arc welder can. Need to weld 100 feet at the top of a tower? Just get exrtra cable. Ya, I know, some of this is a streach but, being an oldtimer, I can't help it. Years ago us weldors used to say "Highway Patrolmen don't get tickets and weldors don't buy welding rod". This was chanted [to remind us of the rightness of our actions] before we got past the guard at the time clock with full boots. Well, a couple of weeks ago I had to buy some Nirod. First rod I ever bought in 45 years of hobbying.
I still got the idea that there can be some problems with a MIG, that a new weldor would have to cope with, that can't happen with a cracker box. Like running out of consumables such as a liner or tips or a cup or finding you have an empty tank on Sunday morning. With an arc welder you ether got rod or you ain't got rod. Also there can be problems with keeping even a top quality MIG in operation. A tight curve in the liner of a MIG can cause the wire to slow down or stop. You can tie knots in the arc welder cable and it dosen't know it. Worn drive roll or dirty liner or worn tip can cause all sorts of discontent. Does not apply to an arc welder. The arc welder could not care less if there's a wind blowing. Need to thaw frozen pipes? An arc welder can. Need to weld 100 feet at the top of a tower? Just get exrtra cable. Ya, I know, some of this is a streach but, being an oldtimer, I can't help it. Years ago us weldors used to say "Highway Patrolmen don't get tickets and weldors don't buy welding rod". This was chanted [to remind us of the rightness of our actions] before we got past the guard at the time clock with full boots. Well, a couple of weeks ago I had to buy some Nirod. First rod I ever bought in 45 years of hobbying.
Gas Tungsten (TIG) is not that difficult to learn and produces High Quality Welds. This method will allow you to weld thinner wall tubing without blowing a hole in it. Harbor,Clarke to name a few, offer decent "Invertors"(small welders) for a few hundred dollars. These do not offer a foot control to regulate your heat input, but with little practice on some tubing drops you find a comfortable amperage. These cheaper units do not offer AC capabilities for Aluminum Welding. One last thing, if your buying a cheap unit, get an extended warranty so if it dies, they will replace it with another new unit. Good Luck....CH3NO2