Installation and test of Juggernaut driver on my "Herbie" minibike.

Li'l Popeye

Well-Known Member
#1
The Chinese torque converters on both my minibikes are doing great, but as I wasn't pleased with the vibrations their drivers create, I was looking for a solution and already modified one driver slightly.
I recently ordered "the Juggernaut" named like this by it's seller. I liked the design and I ordered one. Last week this new 30 series driver for 3/4" shaft arrived to my place in the Netherlands and I have installed and tested it. I'm happy with it. I will also do some testing with a stock driver with aluminium weights, but that's something for later on.
Below is a video I made of the installation and testing of the new driver:
(FYI engine is GX160, stock cam, rockers and valves. Mikuni vm-22 installed. Billet flywheel and rod. Sprocket ratio: 15T-85T)
 

cfh

Well-Known Member
#4
it's a nice video but you really don't tell us the outcome.... is it a better system? if so, in what way? what did it do better or worse? and at what cost?
 

Li'l Popeye

Well-Known Member
#6
it's a nice video but you really don't tell us the outcome.... is it a better system? if so, in what way? what did it do better or worse? and at what cost?
Price is $90,-
Is it better?! Depends on what you expect of it.
To me? Yes. The driver does not cause vibrations like the stock driver does with zinc weights. The design is a lot better.
It let's the engine make more rpm's. Stock driver I ran 4500-4800rpm. Now I make 6500-6600 rpm.
Does it make the minibike run faster?! Not sure. If so, ot is not a lot with 6600 rpm. The stock driver goes into overdrive, while this new one certainly does not. It might even not go direct drive.
But the higher rpm's does make it SOUND faster...
If my engine would make more rpm's as 6600 it will go faster. That's obvious.
I hope this answers your question.
 

cfh

Well-Known Member
#7
i'm not really after sound myself... i have noticed it's hard to spin more than 5000 rpm with a torque converter. but if there's no upside to more rpm, then is it really an 'up side'? you can get a series30 driver for $20-$30. To spend $90 i guess i would need a really good reason if the advantages aren't really there...
 

Li'l Popeye

Well-Known Member
#9
i'm not really after sound myself... i have noticed it's hard to spin more than 5000 rpm with a torque converter. but if there's no upside to more rpm, then is it really an 'up side'? you can get a series30 driver for $20-$30. To spend $90 i guess i would need a really good reason if the advantages aren't really there...
If someone has an engine that can handle a lot of rpm's, then $90,- is peanuts. The money they put in their engines is nuts sometimes.
If you have an engine that doesn't make a lot of rpm's and you are happy with vibrations then the juggernaut is not for you. If the stock driver doesn't cause vibrations; leave it on.
It says so on their website:
This driver is recommended to be used with higher rpm engines.

It will go faster if the engine makes more rpm
 
#11
Price is $90,-
Is it better?! Depends on what you expect of it.
To me? Yes. The driver does not cause vibrations like the stock driver does with zinc weights. The design is a lot better.
It let's the engine make more rpm's. Stock driver I ran 4500-4800rpm. Now I make 6500-6600 rpm.
Does it make the minibike run faster?! Not sure. If so, ot is not a lot with 6600 rpm. The stock driver goes into overdrive, while this new one certainly does not. It might even not go direct drive.
But the higher rpm's does make it SOUND faster...
If my engine would make more rpm's as 6600 it will go faster. That's obvious.
I hope this answers your question.
did you try adjusting the driven to see if it will go into overdrive?
 
#13
Sorry
i re read your post and you’re saying that the driven doesn’t go into overdrive.
this is where different sized rollers come into play.
the Salisbury design is a bell shape that you’re pretty much stuck with.
 

Li'l Popeye

Well-Known Member
#15
An interesting wrench. Wouldn't a strap wrench have worked as well? just asking.
It would work, but I don't have a strap wrench.
Thanks for another great video. Your work on this bike continues to be top notch. It appears that the TC does exactly what it's supposed to do. Very solid work.
Thank you.
Awesome video and the engine sounds great, Lil Popeye. Are you running Olive Oil in it?
I put the same oil in, as I put in my car, nothing special.
did you try adjusting the driven to see if it will go into overdrive?
Well, untill now I have never done anything on the driven.

I have done some calculations about the rpm's and speed with the new driver on a stock 30 series torque converter with 6" driven. Just theory...
First the picture below is taken from a video with an engine running at WOT.

It's clear that the belt never reaches the top of the sheaves/driver as with a stock driver.
I considered this difference to be approx. 1/4"(?!). FYI: the sheave on my Juggernaut is the same size as a stock driver sheave.
With the same center distance, between the driver and driven and the same belt in used, it is obvious the driven has to be another size (bigger) at WOT with the Juggernaut, as it does with a stock driver.
As far as my calculations go, running a stock driver gives 1.17:1 and running Juggernaut gives 0.93:1 (considering the difference is 1/4").

With my stock driver my engine made 4500rpm's. (more calculcation with TC and sprocket ratio and tire size...) this means 35mph.
With the Juggernaut my engine made 6500rpm's. (more calculcation with TC and sprocket ratio and tire size...) this means 40mph.
If my engine would spin faster as 6500, it would go faster. But my engine doesn't spin faster as 6500.
So, after installation of the new driver my minibike runs 14% faster, with an engine that spins 44% faster.
 
#16
I just installed one of these on my CT200U today. Specs are a 212 Predator, billet rod, billet flywheel, billet side cover, hot265 cam w/ 22lb springs, 22mm Chikuni and a header. Currently running a 70t rear sprocket with approximately 15" tall tires.

I previously had this TC on a Doodlebug with a 212. It was running the Comet driver/driven with a Chinese backing plate. It had a nasty vibration that just killed your hands once at 30+mph. Swapped a clutch on and it made that bike much more rideable and fun. No more bad vibrations.

Back to the CT200U. I had not had a TC on this engine before. I loved it how it was but wanted to see how it would do with one on it. Knowing that the standard TAV30 isn't rated for a 16ish hp engine, I decided to pick up the Juggernaut. It wasn't what I was expecting, but I'm not disappointed with my purchase. I was expecting some "oh shit!" acceleration but didn't get that (over what I had with the power it puts out). It doesn't feel much faster, but it pulls much more smoothly. The part throttle rideability also increased greatly. I did notice a drop in top end. It feels wound out now much earlier than when I just had the clutch on it. This is far from scientific, but I had hit 40mph on my street with the clutch. With this, the best I could get was 39mph and that was pushing it. Granted, this was in the span of about 3.5-4 houses (200' or so) from about a 10mph roll. I'm also 270 lbs.

I didn't see any great increase in acceleration or top speed. It did make MY setup much more rideable in the mid-range when running part throttle. Wasn't what I was expecting, but I'm happy with the outcome. I didn't ride it much and did maybe a half mile on it before shutting it down to not annoy my neighbors too much.

I do have some smaller sprockets I plan to play around to see if they make much of a difference. I feel like the 70t is a bit overkill for this setup. It worked great before the TAV since I was happy with a top speed in the low 50s.

I have several friends with mini bikes and they all top out around 25-35mph. I do my riding with them so having a high top speed is pretty low on my list. As it sits now I can comfortably go part throttle at those speeds. I couldn't do that before without constantly being on/off the throttle. It was worth the $90 to me.

edit: It's got some janky 1" blocks to lift the engine for clearance now. The engine plate will be getting raised/modified so they aren't necessary.

edit 2: The tool that OP made to remove the outer housing on the Juggernaut isn't necessary. You can hold it by hand and knock it out with a 3/8" electric impact. Anyone that owns a minibike should have one of these. They make doing stuff much easier and faster.

 
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#17
So does anyone know what the center fastener is called & where I can get one? I got one for dirt cheap from someone because the spider is broke. I have a couple extra spiders so I can replace it. Problem I’m having is the previous owner destroyed the center piece trying to get it off & had no luck. So seeing as there was no saving it at this point (Allen key is obliterated) I ended up cutting the thing off to finally get it opened and fixed. Now I’m stuck not knowing how I can hold it back together. I can’t find the fastener anywhere online from any of the sellers nor the name of it even. Can anyone help with the name of the stock one so I can get another or something that I could use in place of? Thank you in advance!
 

Li'l Popeye

Well-Known Member
#18
So does anyone know what the center fastener is called & where I can get one? I got one for dirt cheap from someone because the spider is broke. I have a couple extra spiders so I can replace it. Problem I’m having is the previous owner destroyed the center piece trying to get it off & had no luck. So seeing as there was no saving it at this point (Allen key is obliterated) I ended up cutting the thing off to finally get it opened and fixed. Now I’m stuck not knowing how I can hold it back together. I can’t find the fastener anywhere online from any of the sellers nor the name of it even. Can anyone help with the name of the stock one so I can get another or something that I could use in place of? Thank you in advance!
Does gopowersport sell them seperate?
 
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