I'm going to be working with a governed clone and am getting a UNI, Exhaust, and E-tube but I honestly don't know what else would be beneficial for a governed engine. Most of the performance parts seem to be made for higher RPM. Other than a head and some little things possibly. Are there any performance cams for low RPM? I remember seeing a wakeboard cam for low end torque but is even that for below 3600 RPM?
If by wakeboard cam you mean the nr racing one, i have the the 252 version. It pulls strong from 3K to about 5K or so. If I was going to get a clone with intentions of keeping the governor on and it wasn't going to be a predator, I would get a champion because of the rockers or just find a dealer that still carries the lifan clones like hf used to.
Nah, unlike you I am capable of change. But here you are here kicking the fence from afar to see if I bark, well WOOF :censure:. That's all you get and be careful where you take this from here fool. You even recently got crossways with Hent so you are on thin ice here already I would think.
You wanna say somethin' else to or about me please do it by PM and save yourself. You post on this thread again at or about me I report the post, see where it goes from there Scott. That's Church.:hammer:
You should have simply contributed to the thread, you're the clone expert here ain't ya'?:shrug::laugh:
You wanna say somethin' else to or about me please do it by PM and save yourself. You post on this thread again at or about me I report the post, see where it goes from there Scott. That's Church.:hammer:
You should have simply contributed to the thread, you're the clone expert here ain't ya'?:shrug::laugh:
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Ask Newoldstock, a member here. And dude, I'm sorry for the post above but it's bad form posting some stuff and not making a contribution so I'm referring you to a man I know who can advise you on how to make the most of a governed clone. The irony of Badtec's statement is that NOS feels the same way I do on the subject to which he refers. Some silly stuff so don't even worry about it, PM Newoldstock and tell him to read the thread. He'll have some solid ideas that can help you greatly.:thumbsup:
Thanks Outlaw Ace. I figured there would be someone who tries to get the most out of a governed clone. I wasn't expecting it to be hard to find more on the subject, but everyone seems to go ungoverned, hopefully doing it in a safer way with billet parts.
I'll send him a PM tomorrow, I gotta sleep now.
Thanks
I'll send him a PM tomorrow, I gotta sleep now.
Thanks
just a bump to the top because there still isnt an answer to the original question.
i like to keep my gov in also. i have a old greyhound and a new predator. greyhound is stock. predator has drilled out main jet and uni filter. predator has way more low end power, however, top end seems to be about the same. i havent taken the gps out yet though. would like to hear all the little tricks to max out governor equipped engines.
TTS
i like to keep my gov in also. i have a old greyhound and a new predator. greyhound is stock. predator has drilled out main jet and uni filter. predator has way more low end power, however, top end seems to be about the same. i havent taken the gps out yet though. would like to hear all the little tricks to max out governor equipped engines.
TTS
Get a 14cc head and a flat top piston. That will raise your compression to around 11.8:1 I think. That'll give you plenty of grunt off the line with a header and good intake. With a TAV you'll have real good acceleration and a top speed of around 38mph even with the governor. I have two Pumas. One with a stock clone with a header, and another with a built Honda GX200 with a mild cam and no governor.
Rob, I think we've discussed our Puma's before. You're the guy who made me buy the Puma actually, other than myself. :thumbsup:
So will the 14cc head make the top end worse or does it improve both low and top end?
I don't really understand the head cc's. Like, they have 14cc heads and 22cc heads. But milling heads lowers the cc's?
with the 14cc head I would want it ported but how much milled?
So will the 14cc head make the top end worse or does it improve both low and top end?
I don't really understand the head cc's. Like, they have 14cc heads and 22cc heads. But milling heads lowers the cc's?
with the 14cc head I would want it ported but how much milled?
I'm sure some others with more experience could add some more specific details, but I'll give you my understanding and opinion. Increasing the compression is probably the one thing that will substantively increase torque and horsepower across the power band, i.e. through all the RPMs, especially off the line. Stock, the clone compression ratio is like 7.9:1, meaning the entire volume of the cylinder and head when the piston is at the bottom of the stroke compresses from 7.9 "parts" down to 1 part. A flat (rather than the stock dished) piston and a 14cc head changes the ratio to 11.8:1, which results in a more "violent" explosion, so to speak. Most high performance engines have much higher compression. 14cc is the volume of the combustion area in the cylinder head. The stock head is 22ccs. Check out this chart. http://nr-racing.com/manuals/gx200comp.pdf Most other modifications tend to be a trade off of one sort or another. Modified cam shafts tend to improve performance in certain parts of the power band, depending on the exact cam. Bigger carbs, big valves, head porting, etc., tend to focus on improving air flow and make power in the upper RPMs. Needless to say, this is very simplistic and there are a whole lot of variables, but you could bolt on a 14cc head and see immediate improvement in accceleration even with the governor intact. Get adventurous and add a billet rod and flat piston and you'll be even better. The only difference on my GX200 is I added a mild cam and removed the governor. I also added some parts for reliability rather than performance, e.g. stainless valves, pushrods, billet flywheel, etc.
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I don't get it. A 4 hp bike running at 3400 rpms and a full blown clone on the same bike running at the same 3400 rpms will be going the same speed. Running a 6 to 1 ratio gearing a "stock" clone with the throttle cracked wide open will throw you on your back. I guess if you were trying to pull a truck with it, throwing all these power parts at it might work? You might be 20 feet ahead of the 4hp bike when you hit the governor 3400 and then gain a few feet when you go up a slight grade. Cheapest upgrade would be the flywheel. More power because the timing is advanced and more speed because you could twist it up to 4 grand easy. with 600 more rpms...same bike as the other two, you walk off and leave both without even trying. My Cat with a worn out 4 horse tec will outrun both of my governed clones. Won't do crap on a hillclimb, but on flat ground it will leave them both.
Interesting thread:
What is the advantage of a modified governed clone?
Well if the right modifications are done it will run better and stronger.
I have read this over and see a few points.
The 14cc head is a good idea.
Added compression will improve the way the engine runs and make it more efficient.
How much compression though I guess depends on what you expect from reliablility and are willing to spend.
I don't think I trust the stock rod and wrist pin at 11:1, but I have had pretty good luck with just the factory parts with just the head.
Next things to look at are the carb and exhaust.
The jetting can be richend up, and will need to be richened up if you use a header and aftermarket filter for best performance.
Timing retards a little on these engines as the RPM increases.
Timing is also a bit lazy for emisions reasons.
So without getting too fancy and a lot of experimentation 4 deg advance will not hurt you with the 14cc head and stock piston.
How fast can you turna clone with stock parts without getting into trouble?
That's difficult to say...
I have had good luck adding a helper spring to the governer arm and pulling up around 4750-5000.
Beyond that things begin to go down hill fast from a reliability point.
Clone valves and valve trains are pretty weak.....
Lash caps on the intake are a good idea ( check fit make sure the cap is bottoming out on the vlave stem and not the valve spring retainer, grind if needed ).
Rocker springs push rods ect are all weak expect things to go wrong and wear of break if pushed too hard too long.
You should gear your bike to rev at an RPM range where its going to run most reliably for crusing and keep that top end for those times you want a thrill.
You don't want to be turning 4500 RPM all day.
Simple modifications including some light porting will open up a little more power.
But the tuning will make the engine start and run a lot better.
Gearing and or TAV are the most important points.
You can make a little more power and not go any faster if the gearing is not changed.
You can change gearing too much and over rev the engine and wear it out fast too.
What is the advantage of a modified governed clone?
Well if the right modifications are done it will run better and stronger.
I have read this over and see a few points.
The 14cc head is a good idea.
Added compression will improve the way the engine runs and make it more efficient.
How much compression though I guess depends on what you expect from reliablility and are willing to spend.
I don't think I trust the stock rod and wrist pin at 11:1, but I have had pretty good luck with just the factory parts with just the head.
Next things to look at are the carb and exhaust.
The jetting can be richend up, and will need to be richened up if you use a header and aftermarket filter for best performance.
Timing retards a little on these engines as the RPM increases.
Timing is also a bit lazy for emisions reasons.
So without getting too fancy and a lot of experimentation 4 deg advance will not hurt you with the 14cc head and stock piston.
How fast can you turna clone with stock parts without getting into trouble?
That's difficult to say...
I have had good luck adding a helper spring to the governer arm and pulling up around 4750-5000.
Beyond that things begin to go down hill fast from a reliability point.
Clone valves and valve trains are pretty weak.....
Lash caps on the intake are a good idea ( check fit make sure the cap is bottoming out on the vlave stem and not the valve spring retainer, grind if needed ).
Rocker springs push rods ect are all weak expect things to go wrong and wear of break if pushed too hard too long.
You should gear your bike to rev at an RPM range where its going to run most reliably for crusing and keep that top end for those times you want a thrill.
You don't want to be turning 4500 RPM all day.
Simple modifications including some light porting will open up a little more power.
But the tuning will make the engine start and run a lot better.
Gearing and or TAV are the most important points.
You can make a little more power and not go any faster if the gearing is not changed.
You can change gearing too much and over rev the engine and wear it out fast too.